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05-09-2007, 02:29 PM
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#1 |
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Sabor de Soledad
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: NM
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"The Surge" will last well into Spring 2008 - We're Winning!
Or, we're losing. Who knows?
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Commanders in Iraq See 'Surge' Into '08
Pentagon to Deploy 35,000 Replacement Troops
By Ann Scott Tyson
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, May 9, 2007; Page A01
The Pentagon announced yesterday that 35,000 soldiers in 10 Army combat brigades will begin deploying to Iraq in August as replacements, making it possible to sustain the increase of U.S. troops there until at least the end of this year.
U.S. commanders in Iraq are increasingly convinced that heightened troop levels, announced by President Bush in January, will need to last into the spring of 2008. The military has said it would assess in September how well its counterinsurgency strategy, intended to pacify Baghdad and other parts of Iraq, is working.
"The surge needs to go through the beginning of next year for sure," said Lt. Gen. Raymond T. Odierno, the day-to-day commander for U.S. military operations in Iraq. The new requirement of up to 15-month tours for active-duty soldiers will allow the troop increase to last until spring, said Odierno, who favors keeping experienced forces in place for now.
"What I am trying to do is to get until April so we can decide whether to keep it going or not," he said in an interview in Baghdad last week. "Are we making progress? If we're not making any progress, we need to change our strategy. If we're making progress, then we need to make a decision on whether we continue to surge."
Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman said yesterday's announcement of the upcoming deployments "is not a reflection on any decision with respect to the duration of the surge."
As the initial U.S. troop buildup in Baghdad nears its June completion, Odierno and other commanders offered details of how they will execute the military's new Iraq strategy, how they expect insurgents and militias to react, and political factors that will bear upon their success.
Commanders said that even with the ongoing increase in Iraq of tens of thousands of American troops, violence could increase in coming months, and some indicators in Baghdad suggest that is already happening.
Partial data on attacks gathered from five U.S. brigades operating in Baghdad showed that total attacks since the new strategy began in February were either steady or increasing. In some cases, certain kinds of attacks dipped as the U.S. troop increase began, only to begin rising again in recent weeks. Overall, "the number of attacks has stayed relatively constant" in Baghdad, said one U.S. officer, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to be quoted by name.
The U.S. military commands that oversee Baghdad and Iraq as a whole have so far failed to meet requests to release current statistics on attack trends, with some U.S. officers voicing concern that the information would be skewed by critics to argue that the strategy is not working.
Although the military can help curtail violence, U.S. commanders say, Iraqi leaders must ultimately forge political compromises in order to create an enduring peace. "They have to pass a certain amount of key legislation for all of this to move forward. If they don't, we could secure all we want but it's not going to be successful," Odierno said, adding that "the jury's still out" on whether Iraq's leaders will act in the national interest.
The main thrust of the military effort in the near term, Odierno said, is to position a critical mass of U.S. and Iraqi troops inside Baghdad to quell the violence that was spiraling out of control late last year. As currently planned, Baghdad will have 25 battalions of U.S. troops and 38 battalions of Iraqi soldiers and police when the increase is complete, he said.
The push to expand the U.S. and Iraqi presence in Baghdad's neighborhoods reflects what U.S. commanders now acknowledge was a mistaken drawdown in 2005 and 2006 of American troops in the capital, leaving Iraqi forces in their place.
"What we had been doing for 3 1/2 years didn't keep up with the sectarian violence spreading so swiftly," said Maj. Gen. Joseph F. Fil Jr., the senior U.S. commander for Baghdad. The new approach "will take every bit of the five brigades" of combat troops now flowing in as reinforcements in the city of 6 million people, he said.
"It's fairly obvious that we transferred out too soon," said Col. Bryan Roberts, who commands a U.S. cavalry brigade in central Baghdad.
The limited U.S. troop presence was one reason that sectarian killings soared out of control in Baghdad after the February 2006 bombing of an important Shiite mosque in Samarra. That spurred what U.S. officers now call the sectarian cleansing of most of eastern Baghdad and large swaths of the west -- as Shiites forced Sunnis out of all but a few enclaves -- a movement that was arrested only with the troop increase this February.
"The sectarian cleansing is pretty much done on the east side" of Baghdad, said a U.S. military official. But since the influx of U.S. and Iraqi forces began, he said, "for the most part the Shia expansion is frozen where it is."
Another vital aspect of the strategy to secure Baghdad, commanders said, is to array more forces on the periphery of the capital to block Sunni insurgents and Shiite militiamen from using the outskirts for staging attacks.
"The Baghdad belts or support zones" have "always been the generator of violence in Baghdad," Odierno said. As a result, he plans to allocate about half of the final two incoming brigades in outlying areas.
Because Iraqi forces are concentrated inside the city, fewer are available to go to the outskirts to partner with U.S. troops, who must cover large areas, he said. In western Baghdad's Mansour district, for example, about 3,000 U.S. and Iraqi troops are covering an area with 300,000 people. "That's huge," said Lt. Col. Dale Kuehl, the U.S. commander for the area.
Still, the decision to place U.S. troops in both Baghdad and the outskirts has led to concern among some officers that their forces will be spread too thin. "If we lose Baghdad, it's game over," said one officer. "We need to concentrate forces in Baghdad and be really ruthless in accepting risk elsewhere," he said.
U.S. commanders said they expected Sunni and Shiite fighters to try to counter the Baghdad strategy in part by staging attacks in other regions.
"They will try to do whatever they can in other cities to draw us out of Baghdad" using vehicle bomb attacks, Odierno said. The Sunni extremist group al-Qaeda in Iraq, for example, might try to establish a base where there are fewer U.S. troops, such as the northern city of Mosul, he said. "We are watching that very closely."
Al-Qaeda in Iraq fighters have recently staged attacks in the predominantly Shiite southern cities of Karbala and Najaf, prompting U.S. and Iraqi officials to launch an assessment of whether the Iraqi police and army have the capability they need to protect the Shiite shrines there, as well as in Samarra and Baghdad, Odierno said.
Diyala province, a demographically mixed area between Baghdad and Iran, has already experienced an upsurge in violence following what Odierno said was in influx in recent months of Shiite militiamen from Baghdad and al-Qaeda in Iraq fighters from Anbar province, a Sunni stronghold in the west of the country. The U.S. military had to dispatch an additional battalion to Diyala, and Odierno said he is considering sending another.
In Anbar, meanwhile, violence has dropped dramatically in recent months because of the cooperation of local tribes -- a trend that could allow for a smaller U.S. presence there in the future, Odierno said. "We have less attacks in Anbar than in any other region," he said.
In Baghdad, sectarian killings have fallen dramatically since January, while suicide bombings using vehicles have increased. Overall, attack patterns varied in different parts of Baghdad. For example, in Mansour to the west, extrajudicial killings fell in February only to increase again by April, while other attacks remained on average the same. In the Rasafa district of central Baghdad, weekly attacks went from 88 in January to 25 in February but are now at about 60.
U.S. Marines and Iraqi soldiers patrol in Sadr City, a large Shiite district in Baghdad. Two U.S. soldiers were killed southeast of the capital yesterday.
U.S. Marines and Iraqi soldiers patrol in Sadr City, a large Shiite district in Baghdad. Two U.S. soldiers were killed southeast of the capital yesterday. (By Hadi Mizban -- Associated Press)
In the relatively safe Haifa Street area of Baghdad, monthly attacks fell by about 50 percent from January to February but since then have increased slightly, including a significant increase in suicide car bomb attacks. In Sadr City, a large Shiite slum, attack levels have remained fairly constant since January.
In Iraq on Tuesday, violence continued against civilians, U.S. troops and members of the Iraqi security forces. A car bombing at a market in the southern city of Kufa killed at least 16 people and wounded more than 70, according to Najaf provincial police and health officials. The midmorning blast occurred near a Shiite mosque and a popular restaurant, leaving shattered glass and pools of blood on the streets.
Two U.S. soldiers were killed and one was wounded in a roadside bombing southeast of Baghdad, the military said in a statement.
In Diyala province, northeast of Baghdad, a suicide bomber wearing a police uniform detonated an explosives belt at a police station northeast of the provincial capital of Baqubah, killing five officers and wounding 15, said Lt. Mohammed Hekman of the Diyala police.
Staff writer Karin Brulliard in Baghdad contributed to this report.
__________________
I was young and confused and your mom didn't want me around no more. Now pass me dem damn collard greens!
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05-09-2007, 02:59 PM
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#2 |
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Positive Panda
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: I live in your heart ;)
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__________________
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05-09-2007, 03:05 PM
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#3 |
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Mr. Tambourine Man
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Australia
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Diet Vanilla Coke is the best soft drink ever made. And that's the truth.
__________________
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05-09-2007, 04:14 PM
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#4 |
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See Emily Play!
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Free Games For May.
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Dawson fuck you.
Surge, followed by Dr. Pepper is the best soft drink ever.
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05-09-2007, 04:35 PM
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#5 |
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to jue
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: the "Employee of the Month" parking spot
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I don't get why soda is called "soft drinks"
they burn sometimes
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05-09-2007, 04:45 PM
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#6 |
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still going strong
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Philadelphia
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Best (widely available) soda on the market.
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05-09-2007, 04:46 PM
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#7 |
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Lakitu
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dawson you're a pussy.
crunchy you're a pussy
dr. pepper.
mt. dew LIVEWIRE
those are the best softdrinks
__________________
We're all just hapless victims of knowledge and learning and such
The man you thought you licked 'em but you choked in the clutch
Brent Black, you said it yourself it's an ethereal kind of flu
A Mac virus reveals the plot of the fiendish Fu Man Chu
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05-09-2007, 04:54 PM
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#8 |
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Mr. Tambourine Man
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Australia
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Chrono
Dawson fuck you.
Surge, followed by Dr. Pepper is the best soft drink ever.
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Don't get fresh with me. I'd rather drink a vat of used bath water than take a sip of Dr. Pepper.
__________________
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05-09-2007, 06:25 PM
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#9 |
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still going strong
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Philadelphia
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Moutain Dew is Satan's piss. I can't believe anyone likes that crap. There are so many lemon-lime sodas on the market, why do you have to pick the worst one? Does the bad advertising just draw you in?
Also Dr. Pepper is pretty good but you can never shake the realization that you're drinking prune juice.
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05-09-2007, 06:29 PM
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#10 |
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Golden f*cking Sun!
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: L.A., Tuskegee, AL or Albany, GA depending on time of year.
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I like how we're talking about soda when the topic is on the Iraq disaster...must be similar to how the Bush admin. plans the war.
__________________
Investors Business Daily on Obama "death panel":
"People such as scientist Stephen Hawking wouldn't have a chance in the U.K., where the National Health Service would say the life of this brilliant man, because of his physical handicaps, is essentially worthless."
Needless to say, Hawking, who is recognized as one of the great theoretical physicists of the 20th and 21st century, was born in the UK and has lived his entire life there.
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05-09-2007, 06:37 PM
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#11 |
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smells like content
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: jmu
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Mountain Dew: Baja Blast - Over the summer, I have sometimes visited Taco Bell's just for the sake of getting this beverage and this beverage alone.
__________________
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05-09-2007, 06:44 PM
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#12 |
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See Emily Play!
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Free Games For May.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Game Guru
I like how we're talking about soda when the topic is on the Iraq disaster...must be similar to how the Bush admin. plans the war.
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Dr. Pepper is infinitely more important then Iraw.
And that joke sucked, by the way. Go pass by sophomore girls and then bitch how they dont like you.
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05-09-2007, 06:48 PM
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#13 |
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Golden f*cking Sun!
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: L.A., Tuskegee, AL or Albany, GA depending on time of year.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Chrono
And that joke sucked, by the way. Go pass by sophomore girls and then bitch how they dont like you.
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It wasn't supposed to be funny genius.
__________________
Investors Business Daily on Obama "death panel":
"People such as scientist Stephen Hawking wouldn't have a chance in the U.K., where the National Health Service would say the life of this brilliant man, because of his physical handicaps, is essentially worthless."
Needless to say, Hawking, who is recognized as one of the great theoretical physicists of the 20th and 21st century, was born in the UK and has lived his entire life there.
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05-09-2007, 06:50 PM
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#14 |
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still going strong
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Philadelphia
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Yeah he actually thinks that way. Terrifying huh?
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05-09-2007, 06:53 PM
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#15 |
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Golden f*cking Sun!
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: L.A., Tuskegee, AL or Albany, GA depending on time of year.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Robjomak
Yeah he actually thinks that way. Terrifying huh?
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Well, Bush does...apparently.
__________________
Investors Business Daily on Obama "death panel":
"People such as scientist Stephen Hawking wouldn't have a chance in the U.K., where the National Health Service would say the life of this brilliant man, because of his physical handicaps, is essentially worthless."
Needless to say, Hawking, who is recognized as one of the great theoretical physicists of the 20th and 21st century, was born in the UK and has lived his entire life there.
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05-09-2007, 06:57 PM
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#16 |
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to jue
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: the "Employee of the Month" parking spot
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Buch to soda to Bush to...?
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05-09-2007, 08:05 PM
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#17 |
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See Emily Play!
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Free Games For May.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Game Guru
It wasn't supposed to be funny genius.
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Then it was just a stupid thing to say.
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05-09-2007, 09:57 PM
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#18 |
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No crying until the end.
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Inukjuak
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Crunchy
I don't get why soda is called "soft drinks"
they burn sometimes
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They're called 'soft' to contrast the 'hard' drinks, such a booze. Soft just means no alcohol.

I have no comment on the war on emotions that hasn't already been said on this forum.
__________________

PSN ID: DrSquigglyPants
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05-09-2007, 09:59 PM
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#19 |
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RIP Yoshito Usui :-(
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: anywhere the greenville scene is not
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i prefer mountain dew to all of you asshats who don't!
__________________

Wii Code:0141-2992-0310-4549
Brawl Code:0602-5951-1825
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05-09-2007, 10:33 PM
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#20 |
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Lakitu
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Robjomak, Mt Dew is fruit punch with lemon lime soda.
and mt dew livewire
that's the best ++++ ever.
i prefer mug to barq's.
__________________
We're all just hapless victims of knowledge and learning and such
The man you thought you licked 'em but you choked in the clutch
Brent Black, you said it yourself it's an ethereal kind of flu
A Mac virus reveals the plot of the fiendish Fu Man Chu
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