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Old 08-22-2006, 11:29 AM #1
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Teacher burns U.S. flags during class
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LOUISVILLE, KY, United States (UPI) -- A middle-school teacher in Kentucky who burned small U.S. flags in two classes during a discussion of free speech has been removed from teaching.

Lauren Roberts, a spokeswoman for the Jefferson County Public Schools in Louisville, said that at least one parent of a student at the Stuart Middle School had complained about Dan Holden`s actions, the Louisville Courier-Journal reported.

Holden teaches seventh-grade social studies, but has been placed on non-teaching duties pending an investigation.

Roberts said Holden`s judgment was in question. She said the district had also notified fire officials.

'Certainly we`re concerned about the safety aspect,' Roberts said.

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I have mixed feelings about this. On one hand if it was done tastefully I see no problem with it but if he went all psycho with it then I could definantly see how it isn't proper classroom action.
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School officials in Louisville reassigned a teacher after he burned two American flags in his class to apparently motivate his students for an assignment, according to a report.

A Jefferson County Public Schools official said Dan Holden, a seventh-grade social studies teacher at Stuart Middle School, burned a small flag in each of his two classes.

Officials said he told administrators he was trying to motivate his students for a weekend writing assignment on the freedom of speech.

The school district didn't find out about it until a reporter asked questions the next day, the report said.

Officials said they have received only one complaint, none from parents.

However, officials said there are two important issues involved. One is the safety of students in regard to having an open flame in the classroom. The other is the propriety of burning a flag.

"The issue is the possible endangerment of children by having an open flame in the classroom," School District representative Lauren Roberts said. "That is definitely a safety issue. And then also the issue of the actual burning of a flag and the symbolism of that is highly offensive to many people. And could there have been a better way to have demonstrated those concepts to those students without going to that extreme?"

The district has contacted fire officials and said Holden could face criminal charges.

Holden has been a teacher in Jefferson County schools since 1979 and has been at Stuart Middle School since 2001. He has no disciplinary record.

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Ok so he did it to motivate the class. that doesn't seem too bad. Danger of an open flame...well I could see the worry in that depending on the size of the flags.
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A Kentucky seventh-grade teacher's attempt to provide his students with a lesson in freedom of speech went up in smoke Monday when he was removed from the classroom for burning two American flags.

Administrators didn't appreciate the demonstration by Dan Holden, a social studies teacher at Stuart Middle School in Louisville, Kentucky, who burned small American flags in two different classrooms on Friday and then asked students to write an opinion paper about it, according to Louisville's Courier-Journal.

"Certainly we're concerned about the safety aspect," said Jefferson County School District spokeswoman Lauren Roberts, adding that the district is also worried about "the judgment of using that type of demonstration in a class."

Holden, who could not be reached for comment, has been teaching in the district since 1979, but has been temporarily reassigned to non-instructional duties pending a district investigation. The paper reported that the district also alerted city fire officials, who are conducting their own investigation.

Roberts said that based on an interview with Holden, the flag burning didn't appear to be politically motivated, but that didn't appease the anger of some parents with children in Holden's classroom.

"She said, 'Our teacher burned a flag.' I'm like, 'What?' " said Pat Summers, whose daughter was in Holden's class. "When I was [at the school] at 8 a.m. [Monday], the lobby was filled with probably 25 or 30 parents" who were upset, he said. Summers said Holden told students to ask their parents what they thought about the lesson. Roberts added that no advance notice had been given to parents or school administrators about the demonstration.

As is the case in many recent election years, the issue of flag burning has been at the center of Congressional attention lately, as part of a package of typically go-nowhere debates on issues such as Constitutional bans on gay marriage aimed at firing up voters in advance of the upcoming November midterm Congressional elections (see "Why Is Congress Debating Flag-Burning Instead Of Global Warming? It's An Election Year"). The Senate failed to pass a Constitutional amendment banning flag desecration earlier this year.

Kentucky has a statute last amended in 1992 making desecration of a national or state flag in a public place a misdemeanor, but the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that flag desecration is protected speech. The American Civil Liberties Union of Kentucky told the paper that the federal ruling would trump the state statute in this case.

From sixth graders like Kelsey Adwell, 11 — who said students just "can't believe that a teacher would do that, burn two American flags in front of the class. ... A teacher shouldn't do that, even though it was an example" — to school board members, the reaction to the demonstration was intense. Board member Pat O'Leary told the Courier-Journal that he thought the flag burning was unnecessary and could have offended some students, including those in military families. "A teacher doesn't do that," he said. "It's just disrespectful."

Though some parents had called for Holden to be fired, Adwell's mother, school PTA president Ginny Adwell, said that was a bit overboard, reminding them that Holden was trying to provoke thought with his lesson.

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Ok so one says officials have only gotten one complaint and another has 25-30 angry parents that haven't complained to officials yet?
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Old 08-22-2006, 11:53 AM #2
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is everyone that brain washed? burning a flag is free speech and i actually support it because free speech is the only thing in this country that id like to believe in.

if i remember correctly i worked with chemicals and gas in 7th grade, dont get us started with it being a "safety issue" monkey bars are more dangerous.

can we get the statistics on numbers of accidents directly related to burning flags? point made
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Old 08-22-2006, 12:01 PM #3
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I'd burn a flag, sure.

I think the reason why people are against it is because of what the flag actually stands for though.
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Old 08-22-2006, 12:30 PM #4
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Well he did it to get the students motiviated to want to write and talk about it. Personally I think he should have lit his students on fire, but that's because I hate schoolkids and their idiot parents, for the most part.
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Old 08-22-2006, 12:33 PM #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrian
I hate schoolkids and their idiot parents, for the most part.
EXCUSE ME? I'm SORRY I don't fit into the mold of a perfect student, but seriously.


I'm a good kid
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Old 08-22-2006, 12:34 PM #6
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Ah I know you are Pithicus.
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Old 08-22-2006, 12:35 PM #7
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Old 08-22-2006, 12:44 PM #8
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a bunch of mexicans took down the american flag and put up the Mexican flag on Mexican Independace day.

Now that is wrong.
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Old 08-22-2006, 12:47 PM #9
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He violated the fire code! GET HIM!

Why couldn't he just role play, and pretend he was some angry, hippie liberal who hated this country while jumping up and down on the flag?
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Old 08-22-2006, 12:55 PM #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CRACKER
a bunch of mexicans took down the american flag and put up the Mexican flag on Mexican Independace day.

Now that is wrong.
Last national holiday here (21/07/06), some city hall in the west of our country, put up the German flag instead of the Belgian... Idiots, they we're the laughing stock of the country...

Behold the "subtle" differences:

Belgium:


Germany:
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Old 08-22-2006, 12:57 PM #11
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That guy just had to push it.
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Old 08-22-2006, 01:01 PM #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Assman
He violated the fire code! GET HIM!

Why couldn't he just role play, and pretend he was some angry, hippie liberal who hated this country while jumping up and down on the flag?

Silly, that's because if you want to pretend to be a liberal hippie, you jam the flagstick in your bum and take a picture to be put up in librul-type museums.
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Old 08-22-2006, 01:04 PM #13
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Old 08-22-2006, 02:30 PM #14
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Hey guys, I'm a hippie. All we are saying is give peace a chance.
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Old 08-22-2006, 02:47 PM #15
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Nothing wrong here...he didn't do it out of hate.
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Old 08-22-2006, 02:55 PM #16
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So when is the school banning Bunsen burners?
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Old 08-22-2006, 03:10 PM #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pithy
I'd burn a flag, sure.

I think the reason why people are against it is because of what the flag actually stands for though.

The constitutions and the amendments, oh god NUMBER 1!!!!!!!!!!!


hmmm sounds like the grandfather paradox, if I burn the flag no more free speech, yet burning it is a symbol of free speech, oh wait the flag is just a thing which every country has. I have the deepest respect for people that fought for our country but this was a demonstration. People need to relax!
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Old 08-22-2006, 03:32 PM #18
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I actually would say that the burning-the-flag-in-a-class-room-is-a-fire-hazard argument is a good one.

Even if in grade 7 chemistry you were taught about some of the more flammable compounds, no sane teacher would actually tell you to expose that stuff to an open flame--but rather to use a crucible or some other container.

A chemistry lab is equipped to handle volatile and combustable material; in my school, every single chemistry lab had its own fire hose, it's own fire extinguisher, eye cleaner stations, emergency shower, and every single table had a sink--a social science class room, I'd expect, wouldn't.
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Old 08-22-2006, 03:35 PM #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caster13
A chemistry lab is equipped to handle volatile and combustable material; in my school, every single chemistry lab had its own fire hose, it's own fire extinguisher, eye cleaner stations, emergency shower, and every single table had a sink--a social science class room, I'd expect, wouldn't.
My chemistry lab has that stuff
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Old 08-22-2006, 04:21 PM #20
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It says that the suspension is pending an investigation, so right now nothing has really happened.

I mean, if he wants to "motivate" the students, he's probably just taking a lighter to a flag that he's holding and letting it erupt in front of the class.

Which, you know, might actually be dangerous.
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