Xavius

Thousands of troops say they won’t fight

By Ana Radelat
Gannett News Service

Swept up by a wave of patriotism after the U.S. invasion of Iraq, Chris Magaoay joined the Marine Corps in November 2004.

The newly married Magaoay thought a military career would allow him to continue his college education, help his country and set his life on the right path.

Less than two years later, Magaoay became one of thousands of military deserters who have chosen a lifetime of exile or possible court-martial rather than fight in Iraq or Afghanistan.

“It wasn’t something I did on the spur of the moment,” said Magaoay, a native of Maui, Hawaii. “It took me a long time to realize what was going on. The war is illegal.”

Magaoay said his disillusionment with the military began in boot camp in Twentynine Palms, Calif., where a superior officer joked about killing and mistreating Iraqis. When his unit was deployed to Iraq in March, Magaoay and his wife drove to Canada, joining a small group of deserters who are trying to win permission from the Canadian government to stay.

“We’re like a tight-knit family,” Magaoay said.

The Pentagon says deserters like Magaoay represent a tiny fraction of the nation’s fighting forces.

“The vast majority of soldiers who desert do so for personal, family or financial problems, not for political or conscientious objector purposes,” said Lt. Col. Bryan Hilferty, a spokesman for the Army.

Since 2000, about 40,000 troops from all branches of the military have deserted, the Pentagon says. More than half served in the Army. But the Army says numbers have decreased each year since the United States began its war on terror in Afghanistan.

Those who help war resisters say desertion is more prevalent than the military has admitted.

“They lied in Vietnam with the amount of opposition to the war and they’re lying now,” said Eric Seitz, an attorney who represents Army Lt. Ehren Watada, the first commissioned officer to refuse deployment to the war in Iraq.

Watada is under military custody in Fort Lewis, Wash., because he refused to join his Stryker brigade when it was sent to Iraq last month.

Watada said he doesn’t object to war but considers the conflict in Iraq illegal. The Army has turned down his request to resign and plans to file charges against him.

Critics of the Iraq war have demonstrated on the lieutenant’s behalf. Conservative bloggers call him a traitor and opportunist.

Joe Davis, spokesman for the Veterans of Foreign Wars, said deserters aren’t traitors because they’ve done nothing to help America’s enemies. But he rejects arguments that deserters have a moral right to refuse to fight wars they consider unjust.

“None of us can choose our wars. They’re always a political decision,” Davis said. “They’re letting their buddies down and hurting morale - and morale is everything on the battlefront.”

Because today’s military is an all-volunteer force, troops seeking objector status must convince superior officers they’ve had an honest change of heart about the morality of war.

The last time the U.S. military executed a deserter was World War II. But hundreds face court-martials and imprisonment every year.

Members of the armed forces are considered absent without leave when they are unaccounted for. They become deserters after they’ve been AWOL for 30 days.

A 2002 Army report says desertion is fairly constant but tends to worsen during wartime, when there’s an increased need for troops and enlistment standards are more lax. They also say deserters tend to be less educated and more likely to have engaged in delinquent behavior than other troops.

Army spokesman Hilferty said the Army doesn’t try to find deserters. Instead, their names are given to civilian law enforcement officers who often nab them during routine traffic stops and turn them over to the military.

Commanders then decide whether to rehabilitate or court-martial the alleged deserter. There’s an incentive to rehabilitate because it costs the military an average of $38,000 to recruit and train a replacement.

Jeffry House, an attorney in Toronto who represents Magaoay and other deserters, said there are about 200 deserters living in Canada. They have decided not to seek refugee status but instead are leading clandestine lives, he said.

Like many of the people helping today’s war resisters, House fled to Canada to avoid the Vietnam War. About 50,000 Americans sought legal residency in Canada during the Vietnam era.

“You would apply at the border and if you didn’t have a criminal record, you were in,” House said.

He said changes in Canadian law make it harder for resisters to flee north. Now, potential immigrants must apply for Canadian residency in their home countries. Resisters say that exposes them to U.S. prosecution.

http://www.airforcetimes.com/story....925-1930387.php

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After the 3rd of 4th deployment I'd probably be thinking the same thing. I was surprised though to see the number this large.

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Crusader

Xavius, the title of your thread is deceitful. We didn't go into Afganistan until 2001, and those desertions were counted from 2000. And not every service member has been in the campaigns in Iraq and Afganistan, meaning they didn't necessarily desert the fight.

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Xavius

I don't understand your complaint.

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Crusader

Let me make it crystal clear:

1) The title of your thread is, "Airforce Times says 40,000 troops have deserted the fight in Iraq and Afganistan."

2) The only statistic in the article says that with the number 40,000 relates to all service members who have deserted the military as a whole since the year 2000.

3) That means that not all 40,000 deserters deserted the fight, because not all of them were in the fight (we didn't go into Afganistan until 2001).

4) That makes the title of this thread incorrect.

Finally, the Army says that desertions have decreased since the wars began, a point which undermines the significance of the article.

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Crunchy

Good! Fight the man troops!

Assman

You join the military, especially in a branch like the Marines and Army, and then you decide not to fight? What pussies.

Since 2000? Uh, what made troops want to desert the military back in 2000?

Xavius

Ok thread title changed.

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Crusader

Clearly, you don't understand what I'm saying: outside of anecdotal evidence, the article does not demonstrate an evidentiary link between all 40,000 desertions and the wars in Iraq and Afganistan. There is mention of a 2002 Army report which states desertions tend to worsen once wars begin, but that claim is contradicted by a claim earlier in the article that Army officials said desertions had been declining since the US launched its war in Afganistan.

Does it seem likely that many of them did desert because of those wars? It does. But that does not mean that the wars are the reason for the desertions, especially considering how little risk most Navy and Airforce service members face.

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Xavius

Exactly. Lighten up.

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Assman

Okay, I got it. Now I know why troops were deserting the military since 2000. It's because Bush was elected president. AM I RITE!?

ZGMF-X20A

Interesting article. If I was drafted I would move to Canada or Jamaica since my parents are from those countries.

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Xavius

I tend to think Saddam had a lot to do with it.

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Assman

Back in 2000? Like what?

Xavius

Everything bad stems directly from Saddam!

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unkwon

As long as I'm allowed to strap myself with bombs and go all at it on my enemies for the army, draft me in! The best way of suicide is killing the enemy around ya while you explode!!!

I would'nt mind being drafted as long as die the most rememberable death.

"AAGGGGHHHHHH yourself!"

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Blue Mars Fan

Crusader

Hey, I have simply been asking for proof. Unsurprisingly, correlations aren't causations, and the likelihood of something being true does not make it more true. Moreover, the Army is claiming, as the article says, that desertions have been declining since the War on Terror began.

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Xavius

There is no proof that it wasn't caused by bad cafeteria food. Maybe that's the real story here? Or maybe we could just use some common sense and discuss the real issue here rather than the thread title. Or, perhaps you could make your own thread title and I will replace it because that's the kind of person I am?*





* beware I will probably play with your suggestion in a humorous way

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Crusader

Very well. It's unavoidable that some people will desert from the military, and no matter what war it is, people will go AWOL. I'm sure that many of them have good reasons for doing so, but they're still traitors. They took an oath to serve this country, and they have failed to live up to that oath.

And I was thinking a better thread title would be: Xavius hates America and might be a communist.

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Xavius

True, and maybe part of the reason may very well be that they're forced to go two, three, heck six times to a 120 degree violent hellhole where progress is simply putting out fires you thought you had put out the first time, fighting for reasons that change over time. But I agree with your point.

Well they're not aiding the enemy, they're simply not going along with what the military expects of them. Traitor? Well I'd choose coward over traitor but I guess it would depend on the person and their reasoning. Would we call a Christian who has true spiritual ethical concerns against this war who chooses peaceful resistance against a war a traitor?

So I suppose the military can pretty much do anything and thus soldiers are then bound by God and State to do whatever is asked of them? Just asking.

Might? Ha.. I laugh at you comrade. I mean, friend.

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